/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>483689
>Should peace-talks have as requirement that the warring parties must agree to peace and cessations of hostilities, before the negotiations begin, and the purpose of the negotiation is only about the details of the arrangement ?
Isn't that what has traditionally happened? I know it definitely was the case for World War One.

>>483690
>Isn't that what has traditionally happened?
Traditionally wars usually continued until one side lost or surrendered. The idea of interrupting wars for a negotiated peace, isn't new, however that type of peace became more desirable as the destructive power of industrial weapons surged.

>I know it definitely was the case for World War One.
The Versailles treaty was formally a peace treaty, but in reality it was just an armistice. Considering how soon-after WW2 broke out, it was pretty shit. So we don't want to use that as a blueprint.

To be honest i don't know which direction to go with this.
I'm looking for a formula to make peace-diplomacy extremely hostile to war-monger subversion.

>>483689
>Should peace-talks have as requirement that the warring parties must agree to peace and cessations of hostilities, before the negotiations begin, and the purpose of the negotiation is only about the details of the arrangement ?

Probably, but a party disingenuous enough to do what's being done now could also just lie and say they agreed beforehand when they really don't.

>One step further would be, for the peace-gang to "game" the structures the war-monger-gang set up to facilitate war, and turn it into a means of pacification. How would one go about doing that ?

In practice?
Work with members of the military who object to this bullshit and offer strategic support for military rebellion. In my head, this looks like developing counter-institutional organized power, and negotiating ideological lines which the citizenry and members of the military who turn against empire will both agree with, and developing citizen defense capability in case it goes wrong.

>>483693
>Probably, but a party disingenuous enough to do what's being done now could also just lie and say they agreed beforehand when they really don't.
You're right. Is there a way to frustrate this ?
Could this be done to the warmonger-gang, like pretending to agree to a war-coalition only to pull out right before the start of the war, to wreck all the battle-plans.

>Work with members of the military who object to this bullshit and offer strategic support for military rebellion. In my head, this looks like developing counter-institutional organized power, and negotiating ideological lines which the citizenry and members of the military who turn against empire will both agree with, and developing citizen defense capability in case it goes wrong.
This might actually work.

>>483689
>One step further would be, for the peace-gang to "game" the structures the war-monger-gang set up to facilitate war, and turn it into a means of pacification. How would one go about doing that ?
To a certain degree this is what has been taking place at the UN since the Palestinian genocide began. The UN and its institutions have been tool for the US to bully the rest of the world, but marginal and developing countries have been attempting to use its institutions against the US over the past year.

>>483697
>but marginal and developing countries have been attempting to use its institutions against the US over the past year.
Is that whats happening ?
I mean that seems hopeful, as in the UN becoming a truly international organization.

However i think the people who run that institution most likely are intelligent, shrewd and calculating. They ruled the Gaza-war genocidal, the settlements illegal and the Netanyahu and friends as war criminals, not just because that's objectively true, but also because the Zionist project will likely fail.

The signs for that are:
the insane cruelty, that is likely Zionists trying to get preemptive revenge for the massive defeat they are about to suffer.
All the crimes against democratic rights and civil liberties in the west, indicates that the Zionist project hasn't just lost the middle east it also lost the west.

This barbarism is the political equivalent of a drowning man pushing others under water in desperation. It's not what winning looks like. So maybe the marginalized countries did gain a little more sway, but some of it likely is just people who know the institutional game, simply not boarding a sinking ship.